Exclusive Interview

By Jeremy Kinser and Karen Ocamb

Anyone who has ever seen Carol Channing kick up her heels in her friend Jerry Herman's Hello Dolly!, or belt out a tune with her favorite singing group, the San Francisco Gay Men's Chorus, or deliver an over-the-top performance at any one of a hundred AIDS benefits would find it exceedingly hard to imagine that the 85-year-old Broadway legend has an anti-gay sinew in her slender body.

But that's the impression left by an interview with the Ohio-based Gay People's Chronicle, now circulating on the Internet. The Nov. 10 Chronicle story by Kaizaad Kotwal titled “You know what the Bible says: Broadway legend Carol Channing shares some startling views about her gay fans” implies that, despite her long pro-gay history, Channing privately judges gays by anti-gay biblical standards. Kotwal published the transcript of his interview to substantiate the contention.

Surprised by the allegation, IN Los Angeles magazine secured an interview with Channing and asked her directly about the charge.

IN: The reporter said that he asked you: “You seem to have a very large gay following. Have you ever thought about why?” And you supposedly said: “I don't think about them. I'm grateful that they seem to like me. They're terribly loyal to me. But I'm knee-deep in the Bible and you know what it says about that.” Could you clarify that please? Do you remember what you said?

Channing: I never said that! I've never read anything in the Bible about being gay or at least I haven't read that part. But, it is true that I don't think about them in that way. They are gay. Who cares? The Bible says “Love thy neighbor as thyself.” I don't recognize differences except their goodness and artistic abilities, which I always admire.

So what do you think of gay people?

Channing: Again. I don't think about them as gay. They're people, period.

The reporter supposedly said: “I read that you have fought for gay rights. Do you think that the things gay people are fighting for are important?” And you supposedly said: “I don't think about it. If they can't take care of their own problems, why should I bother? It's not my problem.”

Channing: I didn't say it like that. I'm angry that I have to even answer questions like these, and I shouldn't have to. I think my record speaks for itself. I've always been supportive to the gay community and I have found they are capable of taking care of themselves. I told him that, not being gay, it hasn't been a problem I've had to live with myself.

Channing expressed a similar sentiment in an interview last March with the gay Canadian magazine, Xtra. Though her autobiography, Just Lucky I Guess, lists numerous gay icons with whom she worked, from Noel Coward and Cole Porter to Rock Hudson, Xtra writes that Channing knew little of their private lives. "That's none of my business. It's never been a problem to me. I never asked them. I don't share my private marital relations with them," Channing told the magazine, adding about her gay devotees: "I never stop being grateful for them. Truly, I feel they know who's funny and who's not. They're the most wonderful people to play to, because they truly appreciate everything."

IN also noted some apparent discrepancies in Kotwal's report. For instance, though he writes that he published the entire transcript of the interview “after a 35 minute chat,” the published interview times out at around four minutes. Additionally, Gay People Chronicle publisher Martha J. Pontoni confirmed to IN that Kotwal did not record the interview, from which an accurate transcription could be made, but instead took “copious notes.”

Pontoni also said that (as Kotwal reported in his story), Kotwal approached the interview as a Channing “fan.” But Channing told IN, “The interview started out very badly. He seemed to have an anger towards me from the very start. I couldn't figure out where it was coming from.”

The situation apparently became more convoluted when Channing called her openly gay publicist, Harlan Boll, immediately after the interview. Boll called Kotwal and told him that Channing didn't know she was speaking with a gay reporter, though Kotwal reported that he “overheard” the person who answered the phone give Channing his information. “A third of the way through the interview,” Kotwal reported, “Channing asked, 'Oh, dear. Is this for a gay publication?' Even after I reconfirmed that it was, she later reiterated her ideas about gays and the Bible.” Kotwal reported that Channing said, “At one time there were seven men doing me in Las Vegas. I began to wonder if I had a glandular problem. But you know that the Bible says that that's not the way it's supposed to be.”

Channing told IN she had “no idea [that she was talking to a gay reporter]. He said he told me or he told Nick [Channing’s personal assistant], but I don't remember that. It didn't matter to me, but I thought he was from the Springfield News and I couldn't understand why he was asking me about my gay friends and their relationships.”

Kotwal also reported that “the marketing people with the Springfield Arts Council” told him “Channing's people said that she had been most upset with the interview” and was canceling other interviews. Not true, Channing told IN—she did at least three other interviews.

In a subsequent memo to editors, Boll said, “With reference to the Bible, [Channing] said 'You know what the Bible says about it ... Nothing at all.' The interviewer failed to add that last comment in the quote to the interview.”

IN tried unsuccessfully to reach Kotwal to ask him, among other questions, whether his personal opinion of the Bible as a gay man might have influenced his perception of Channing's comments. To many gays, the mere evocation of the Bible conjures up images of religious right-wingers haranguing gays with their interpretation of Leviticus.

But apparently to Channing, the Bible is about love. In a statement about the Chronicle story, she said, “I believe the most important commandment ever given to human kind, as quoted in the Bible, [is] to “Love they neighbor as thyself.” Should we do less? At times this seems difficult but I try.” Asked by IN about the importance of the Bible in her life, Channing said, “We pray before every time I go onstage that God will grant me health and energy and that the audience will receive a blessing from the performance.”

Another point of contention was over Channing's belief in civil unions instead of gay marriage. Channing told IN, “I don't believe in gay marriage. It's not that I don't think men or women make good couples, but I do believe they should have civil rights or civil unions, because they should.” She didn't elaborate.

Pontoni vigorously defended Kotwal, a professor at Ohio State University whose “integrity is above question.” Channing “misspoke,” Pontoni said. “It's our position that she said what she said” and the paper stands by Kotwal.

Younger gays for whom Madonna is an icon may not realize that before Madonna imitated Marilyn Monroe singing “Diamonds Are a Girl's Best Friend,” Carol Channing introduced the song in the original Broadway production of Gentlemen Prefer Blondes, written by Jule Styne (Funny Girl, Gypsy).

In the dark ages before gay liberation and the “gay community,” when the theater was one of the few safe havens for despised homosexuals, Channing was a friend and ally. As a child Channing realized that the theater “is a temple. This is a cathedral. It's a mosque. It's a mother church. This is for people who have gotten a glimpse of creation and all they do is recreate it,” she told the Austin Chronicle in a July 2005 interview. Channing also epitomized the theater motto “the show must go on,” as she revealed to Xtra.

"I had ovarian cancer while I was in the second year of Hello, Dolly! on Broadway. I never missed a show in way over 5,000 performances," Channing told the gay magazine. "I found that after each show I felt better. The doctor examined me, 'My gosh, you're getting cured.' I give a little of my soul to the audience. They give a little of their appreciation back again, and it builds and it builds. It spreads over the theater like rubbing two sticks together and it takes fire. It heals the audience and it heals my fellow actors, and it certainly healed me."

On Nov. 18 in Springfield, Ohio, Channing's one woman show The First 80 Years are the Hardest: The Carol Channing Experience was “very well received,” Tim Rowe, director of marketing for the Springfield Arts Council told IN. She was onstage singing and dancing for two hours with no intermission, followed by a Q & A with the audience.

“At no time was there any negative question or anything concerning the incident with the Gay People's Chronicle,” Rowe said. In fact, Channing received two standing ovations and signed autographs in the lobby for over an hour after the show. “It was a very positive experience.”